Indigo: An Afternoon with Angie Thomas

Bottom left/top right photo sources: publisher promotional photos. All other photos by Girl Well Read—do not use without written permission.

The Toronto launch of On the Come Up was presented with Indigo Books & Music at Baillie Court in the Art Gallery of Ontario. Angie Thomas sat down with literary journalist, Donna Bailey Nurse, for an in-depth conversation on her body of work.

Thomas travels a lot these days, and that's because she's got another New York Times bestseller on her hands. In fact, at the time of writing this, Thomas is sitting in the number one and number two spots. She brought along her mom with whom she credits for keeping her grounded.

When asked what she thinks the reason for her success is, Angie said that young black girls identify with her characters and went on to say that "What we're seeing—not just with The Hate U Give—but what we're seeing in general with art is that, you know, we're seeing a huge Black Renaissance."

Even though her books encompass the nature of Black experience, they appeal to a multitude of people. It saddens her to have come to learn that "anti-Blackness is global," but that she also sees that "Blackness is beautiful" and that "there areas many different layers to Blackness, so many ways that Blackness looks differently in different areas and different countries."

What about this rumour that young people have short attention spans?

Thomas commented that "we're not giving them things that hold their attention." Growing up in the digital age, young people are aware of the world, they are becoming activists and "they're proving society wrong every single day."

There is a rich literary heritage in Jackson, Mississippi. Touching on some of her influences in writing, Thomas credits Jessmyn Ward whose Logan family (from Sing, Unburied, Sing) influenced her Carter family. She wanted them to be a "contemporary" version of the Logans.

The Hate U Give is Angie's response to police killings of young Black boys. Told by a girl who attends a white prep school, Starr's story is that of so many other girls. It is these stories that are the ones not being told and she wants to empower them. Thomas specifically spoke about Hailey and Chris: there are so many Haileys, meaning people who "never see themselves." Chris is "not woke, he's barely drowsy." Angie says that Chris "starts in a coma and is trying to wake up, but America has given him NyQuil—his privilege has allowed him to be sleepy."

On the Come Up is about Bri Jackson, a girl that wants to be a rapper, but her song goes viral for the wrong reasons. There is an incident involving a security guard and Bri is not given the benefit of being a young woman, instead she is seen as a threat. Angie herself aspired to be a rapper and was even featured in a magazine. She said it was a learning experience, she learned to be authentic. "Rappers make you think, laugh, cry," and that they are "storytellers through rhymes" that are real and authentic because they "speak from the heart."

The character of Khalil haunts OTCU and (being post-Khalil) the characters from THUG are seen from a different angle. Although Bri lives in the same neighbourhood as Starr, they don't know each other. Bri is too much and not enough. "'She’s too loud. She’s too aggressive. She’s too angry. She’s not smart enough. She’s not delicate enough. She’s not wise enough. She’s not intelligent enough,' when the fact is, she’s enough. Period. And she has to come to realize that herself." Thomas says "At the end of the day, you have to define yourself. You have to know yourself, and you have to love yourself."

At the heart of both books is the great love of a Black family and this is front and centre in both novels. Angie also doesn't want to portray stereotypes in her books. Maverick is not a unicorn—stereotypes tell you about the absent Black father. There is so much love within Black communities, and these books are her love letters to them.

What does her writing process look like? 

Thomas starts with characters. For THUG, Starr and Khalil came to her. She then tries to plot around them. OTCU was plotted out of the censorship from THUG. Thomas also uses J. K. Rowling's plotting chart as well as a calendar to help keep everything straight. And yes, she does suffer from writers block: "it's your brain's way of telling you to take a break."

On the Come Up

Sixteen-year-old Bri wants to be one of the greatest rappers of all time. Or at least win her first battle. As the daughter of an underground hip hop legend who died right before he hit big, Bri’s got massive shoes to fill.

But it’s hard to get your come up when you’re labeled a hoodlum at school, and your fridge at home is empty after your mom loses her job. So Bri pours her anger and frustration into her first song, which goes viral…for all the wrong reasons.

Bri soon finds herself at the center of a controversy, portrayed by the media as more menace than MC. But with an eviction notice staring her family down, Bri doesn’t just want to make it—she has to. Even if it means becoming the very thing the public has made her out to be.

Insightful, unflinching, and full of heart, On the Come Up is an ode to hip hop from one of the most influential literary voices of a generation. It is the story of fighting for your dreams, even as the odds are stacked against you; and about how, especially for young Black people, freedom of speech isn’t always free.

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ANGIE THOMAS is one of the leading voices exploring Black girlhood. Author of the #1 New York Times bestselling, award-winning novel The Hate U Give, she is a former teen rapper who holds a BFA in creative writing.

Angie was born, raised, and still resides in Jackson, Mississippi.